a pioneering genius of history and the political science of war

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	• The Peloponnesian war (Modern library college editions) Thucydides Modern Library, 1951 - 516 pages average customer review:based on 14 reviews
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highly recommended

a pioneering genius of history and the political science of war

It is always difficult and challenging to pick up what is regarded as a classic and read through it in a naive manner, not as a specialist but as an amateur who just wants to learn. There are always surprises.
In contrast to the looser Herodotus, his near contemporary, Thucydides sought to record an "objective truth" of the great war between Athens and Sparta, in the 5C BC. He consulted multiple sources and carefully judged what to include and what not to include, ito establish an idea of what really happened. While some of the forms, such as elaborately made-up speeches as a study in rhetoric, differ from what we would do today, he set a new standard for accuracy. THe result is a work of genius, the first serious attempt at writing history rather than merely storytelling.

Reading this is not always fun. There are long sections that are lists of occurences, with references to individuals who appear and disappear without followup. But there are also penetrating analyses of remarkable characters, such as Perikles, Alcibiades, and other great generals, who became reference points to the present day. Thucydides also broached the subject of political science as history - how institutions actually functioned - in new ways, with demonstrations of how the unleashing of passions led to their corruption or distortion. Finally, there are chilling sections with timeless insight in human conduct in war, with the full horror of the breakdown of all order and law.

THis translation is also sufficintely readable, far better than the turbid one I first read in college. THucydides is quite eloquent in this version.

Recommended as one of the great classics of Western literature. It is a work of genius so great that it is still relevant and vivid.

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Good source for history class

I used this book for an introductory History class. It is a great supplement to the study of the Greek periods. It has a nice glossory in the back for unusual terms, as well as helpful maps. Some of the text is a bit dry, but the reading is not very difficult.

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Lessons for Modern Times

The history of the Peloponnesian is a brilliant account of a classic war that began as a preemptive attack on Athens by Sparta to prevent the domination of the Greeks by the Athenians. The war began in the year 427 BC and ended 27 years later with the defeat of Athens by Sparta. This history however is only up to the 21st year of the war. Although there are several translations of the work I selected the translation by Thomas Hobbes the 17th century philosopher. It is the first done in the English language. Thucydides was a soldier on the Athenian side which in a sense puts a lie to the common notion that it is the winners of war who write history. The war was finally won by Sparta, powerful on land, and an oligarchy with a communal outlook on life defeating Athens with the strongest navy in the world, and a democracy with an individualistic outlook on life. Ironically it is Sparta's eventual mastery of the sea that defeated the Athenians. Whether or not this bodes ill for America remains to be seen. History is not over.

Thucydides relates not only the battles of the war in some detail describing tactics and the individuals involved, but also the strategy and the politics. There is intrigue, treason, broken alliances, and hubris. The winners of a battle rarely show mercy and treason is dealt with harshly with often entire towns put to the sword or enslaved. Among the combatants there is respect for the strong and contempt for the weak. Truces are often held to bury the dead because the dead are respected by all.

Unlike Homer's Illiad written about one thousand years earlier Thucydides does not mention the gods as having a say in the outcome of the war. While religion is a factor it is not a determining factor in the conduct and outcome of the war. One could argue that Thucydides is a secular account of history whereas Homer is a more religious account.

Thucydides should be mandatory reading and study for all white males between the ages of 16 and 18 of above average IQ. The History will prepares them for war and instill in them the desire and willingness to defeat the enemy. It teaches contempt for the enemy which is a valuable attitude in war. Pericles funeral oration to the Athenians is the most inspiring and most moving speech ever given. The resemblance of this speech to the Gettysburg address is obvious and leads one to conclude that if Pericles could inspire Abraham Lincoln in his thinking then Thucydides' History did so likewise and influenced the strategy and the eventual outcome of the Civil War including the period of reconstruction. The contrast between the Spartan outlook on life and that of the Athenians to the adversaries in all subsequent wars up to the present war on terror is striking indeed. There are lessons still to be learned from the Peloponnesian War and woe to those that fail to learn these lessons.

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Greatest of All Greek Historians

The greatest of all Greek historians was the Athenian general Thucydides (455-400 B.C.E.). Thucydides' classic work, "History Of The Peloponnesian War", provides us with the historical framework for 5th century Greece, a golden age of intellectual achievement and creativity rarely equaled in human history. This history is by far the best account of the bitter war between Athens and Sparta as well as the only surviving contemporary record of the rise of the Athenian empire. Thucydides as a master storyteller does not just cover the battle scenes; he records the great political speeches of Pericles, leader of Athens, and Lysander leader of Sparta with great acumen. He is recognized as the first historian to actually go and get eyewitness accounts, visit battlefieilds and research documents and records. This work took him over 20 years and it shows!

The lessons he teaches about imperial over reaching and unreasonable peace settlements are prescient today as they were during his times. President Woodrow Wilson, read this book on his voyage across the Atlantic to the Versailles Peace Conference and vociferously fought the other Allies in making unreasonable demands of the Germans. Wilson learned the dangers that the world would be placed in by backing the Germans into a corner politically and economically from Thucydides book.

As a graduate student in philosophy and history, I heartily recommend this timeless classic to anyone who is interested in political philosophy, and history. I also recommend you read it with David Cartwright's "A Historical Commentary On Thucydides."

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Get the Real Story

No book has kept me up at night or occupied my thoughts in the past decade more than Thucydides. The story told here is stunningly and disturbingly relevant for any American. Sparta vs Athens seems an allegory for the conflict between traditional America, of our first hundred years or so, and modern, progressive America from about 1900 onward. Its no allegory of course, and the realization that history repeats itself gives the work an importance that no book can match.

I recall in college taking one of those Intellectual History survey courses required of incoming freshman. We were all assigned to read Perikles funeral oration as an example of how like our society Athens was and of course, how noble that likeness made the two societies. We weren't, of course, assigned the entire book, just the oration out of context. When I finally got around to reading Thucydides years later, I thought back to that course and wanted my tuition money back!

Read the original text. Political writers and propagandists of all stripes make reference to Thucydides to give weight to their views. Don't trust their interpretations. Read for yourself and decide. Skip the commentaries and translations and go right to page one of the text.

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reviews: page 1, 2, 3

The classic history of war between Athens and Sparta.

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